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ary 2 hours ago [-]
To everyone who is about to pile on regarding the lack of a fingerprint sensor: you know it's not possible, we all know it's not possible, the creator of this project knows it's not possible.
What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it.
To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.
xp84 28 minutes ago [-]
Not defending anyone using Touch ID as a reason to complain about this -- I think it looks like a great keyboard -- but just yesterday I saw this super cool alternative to the hilarious "buy the world's most expensive mediocre membrane keyboard to tear out a tiny part" idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB3lk-PNA6I
As near as I can understand it, macOS supports a smart card reader (and apparently will defer to its sign-off for authentication duties when it's present and configured, and Touch ID isn't), so if you emulate a smart card reader you can make your own fingerprint sensor and have it say "I'm a smart card" and sign challenges like a smart card does.
The creator is very up front that this isn't equivalently secure for preserving state secrets, as if you carefully tear this device apart you can just short the pins that the sensor part connects when it's happy with the fingerprint. On the other hand, it is hilarious that anyone who isn't a person of interest for the CIA, Mossad, MI6, or FSB would think they're important enough for someone to go to the trouble of using that method to unlock their secrets. Anyone else would just club you over the head or slip you a mickey, and stick your unconscious finger on your fingerprint sensor.
aemerson_ 10 minutes ago [-]
Thank you, it's been a real labour of love!
People are raising a good point RE Touch ID. It is possible to add a fingerprint sensor. But that fingerprint sensor will never be able to do the things that Touch ID is most useful for: i.e. use Apple Pay. It would be incredibly confusing to have a fingerprint sensor that was usable for some things and not for others. Therefore the better experience today is to not include a fingerprint sensor at all, imo.
philistine 60 minutes ago [-]
Get an Apple Watch. It massively cuts the amount of required unlocks.
xp84 26 minutes ago [-]
Unfortunately, I would place this in the 'Sometimes but don't count on it' half of the "Things Apple Watch has Proven Itself Reliable For" list.
(The only non-timekeeping items on the 'Always works perfectly' part of the list are Apple Pay and the little button that dings your phone when you've misplaced it.)
26 minutes ago [-]
gtsteve 2 hours ago [-]
A fingerprint sensor isn't possible, appreciated, but what about a U2F activation button? It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example (I'm certain this can be done on Linux but unsure about other oses)
> It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example
Everyone would be better served with a generic USB hub in the keyboard, not shipping a security key with the keyboard.
crumpled 7 minutes ago [-]
My favorite keyboard for years was the Dell SK-8135. It had media buttons without messing with your function keys, a volume knob, and two USB ports!
For a long time I would argue (as an IT support person who would have to support your wireless keyboard problems) that having a wireless keyboard was wasteful and unnecessary if you never used it more than 3 feet from your computer anyway.
fingerprint sensor is easily done. Touch ID-compatible fingerprint sensor from someone other than Apple is not possible as I understand it.
Andrew6rant 2 minutes ago [-]
I just linked you a post with a Touch ID-compatible mechanical keycap.
Reverse-engineered from the Apple Magic Keyboard and requires a donor board, though
hamburglar 5 minutes ago [-]
This looks incredible but I’m skeptical you can actually produce it for $250 and maintain the level of quality and features that you claim. And it appears you’re offering $100 off of that (or is that the post discount price? It’s hard to tell). I guess I will wait and see.
numpad0 11 minutes ago [-]
I don't even know if this is going to be a big or a tiny ask, and I don't know if I'm going to end up with this beautiful product at all, but just in case it's going to be trivial to do so, could you add an option or extra keycaps to have Caps Lock key physically engraved as "Control"? IIUC the ctrl-caps swap itself isn't so rare, but actual keycaps engraved as such seem to be relatively rare.
It's apparently a UNIX thing, and old Apple, NeXT, some of DEC, Sun, HP UNIX, Sony NEWS, even IBM XT, many of modern Mac JIS, etc. seem to/did/do have the legends for that key as "Control", "CTRL", or "Ctrl". I think that adds even more to the cool factor.
swingboy 48 minutes ago [-]
Great looking keyboard but why are the numbers on the number keys so large? They stick out like a sore thumb.
LoganDark 18 minutes ago [-]
Agreed, I love a lot of the design but the unnecessary "quirkiness" in aspects like this are a bit of a turn-off.
runjake 28 minutes ago [-]
LOVE the industrial design. HATE the font, especially on the number keys. But, great job overall!
waffletower 2 minutes ago [-]
I actually like the number font, the presence, but the loss of visibility for the shifted symbols is a huge loss. I know where the numbers are -- I admittedly need more reminding for the symbols as I never explicitly practiced them. The muscle memory for them isn't quite as strong and in low light I need to see them.
copperx 21 minutes ago [-]
The keyboard seems to be missing important symbols, such as - and =, so it's likely not the final design.
throwaway89201 9 minutes ago [-]
Those characters are present. The design of the number row is just so 'out there' that you missed them.
alt227 6 minutes ago [-]
Love the keyboard, great job!
the website however is a terrible experience. There is so much movement whilst scrolling that it triggers my motion sickness.
xingped 2 hours ago [-]
Love the design and have also wanted a super low profile mechanical keyboard like this! I have one question though - what is the travel or activation distance of the keys?
The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them.
Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?
glitchc 38 minutes ago [-]
What you are referring to is called the pre-travel distance. There are mechanical key options with very short pre-travel, such as the Cherry MX and Kailh Silver switches. They're mainly used for gaming.
The travel distance on the Altar II switches is 1.8mm, so about 0.8mm more than on a MacBook keyboard. Similar to those keyboards, there is very little pre-travel on Altar II keys.
With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.
xingped 58 minutes ago [-]
It looks like the travel distance on the Microsoft Designer Keyboard is 1.35mm, so not far off.
How long are preorders/is the preorder discount available? I may seriously consider this.
aemerson_ 48 minutes ago [-]
Reservations are open until the Kickstarter launches on November 10th 2026.
rckclmbr 2 hours ago [-]
Love the keyboard, looks solid. Out of curiosity, why did you make the numbers so big? It looks like an intentional design choice and I don’t know if I like it, but I’m wondering if there’s reasoning behind it that could change my mind
charlesrice 37 minutes ago [-]
Yeah it seems like if they wanted to make it appeal to Apple people they would make it more consistent and subtle. It's all so clean and then the numbers look like they came off a special calculator for people with failing eyesight.
Magicrafter13 29 minutes ago [-]
I can't go back to a staggered typewriter layout, ergonomic columnar is where it's at.
I'm curious what the purpose of haptic feedback on an already mechanical keyboard is?
Cool that you've been able to turn this into a livable business though.
LoganDark 21 minutes ago [-]
It's feedback for the magnetically-coupled dial, and optionally an accessory to notifications.
mistersquid 2 hours ago [-]
The promo website is something to behold and by itself is sufficient reason to chuck a buck at the possibility of Altar II coming into existence.
Thank you, good luck, and looking forward!
aemerson_ 57 minutes ago [-]
Thank you so much! A genuinely silly amount of time went into the website.
If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.
allenc 5 minutes ago [-]
That is a silly amount of detail that in many ways is what Apple design is known for.
dmhmr 35 minutes ago [-]
It looks nice on mobile but I initially viewed it on desktop and found it unpleasant to use.
ndiddy 39 minutes ago [-]
The thing I find most attractive about mechanical keyboards is that they send a keypress when a key is only partially pressed down. When combined with the tactile bump and audible click created by actuating the key, this means that typing on a mechanical keyboard is much less fatiguing than using a rubber dome or laptop keyboard because you're only pushing the key down partially until you feel the bump and hear the click rather than slamming your finger into the bottom of the keyboard. Does your keyboard still have this feature even with the slim profile?
aemerson_ 7 minutes ago [-]
I believe you are referring to the "pre-travel" of the key and yes, Altar II has a very small amount of pre-travel actually. This is partially due to it having such a small vertical travel.
lsaferite 10 minutes ago [-]
You should check into hall effect mechanical keyboards. They can have a floating actuation point for retrigger that is based on detecting press, partial release, press. It's really pretty cool.
cosmic_cheese 1 hours ago [-]
Looks great, but at this point I’m too used to HHKB layout on custom MX/topre boards to go back to full time typical 65%/75% layouts. Standard Delete/Backspace position in particular is almost grating now. Totally understand if that’s too niche of a market to serve, though.
The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?
ethersteeds 2 hours ago [-]
This looks beautiful. While obviously a Mac keyboard, to what extent is it compatible with Linux?
Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?
aselimov3 41 minutes ago [-]
This is so sick. I'm almost convincing myself to get it but I feel like I would really miss my 36% keyboard with multiple layers too much. Still tho...
dmhmr 29 minutes ago [-]
Love what you did, the dedication for 2 years to launch this is awesome. Apple keyboards are near-horrific IMO so you are filling an important niche for sure. I know it is a silly complaint in the mech KB space but the price compared to something like a Keychron K3 makes this a no-go for my preferences. The K3 is very close to what I'd consider suitable as a daily driver at work.
Thank you for including audio of the typing!!!! Again this is my preference, the Alter II is not "thocky" enough for what I like to hear. Clacky and Clicky keyboards are just far too distracting or painful to listen to for extended periods.
Also interesting to see a speaker built-in. I'd have cut it for cost and space.
energy123 16 minutes ago [-]
> Apple keyboards are near-horrific IMO
I visited a mechanical keyboard shop, tried about 20 of them including low profile variants, then visited an Apple shop. Both shops allowed me to sit down and measure my typing speeds on a computer over many trials.
The apple magic keyboard, full-size, gives me about 10-20% faster typing speeds. Over the previous three years I had only used mechanical keyboards.
I also found it very aesthetically pleasing to type on, rivalled only by the Logitech pebble in terms of subjective feel. There's something about feeling the whole aluminium frame and plastic membrane flex when I hit a key hard that I find pleasing in a way that isn't matched by many other keyboards.
I bought one, and it's the only piece of apple hardware I own. My 3 mechanical keyboards are collecting dust.
tejohnso 15 minutes ago [-]
For Apple folks I guess, but would be nice to see a pointing stick.
charrondev 2 hours ago [-]
I’m assuming it’s not possible for it to include a fingerprint sensor?
As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday.
Otherwise it looks beautiful.
aemerson_ 2 hours ago [-]
Unfortunately not possible, at least not securely, and not in a way that users would expect. I really tried.
We could include _a_ fingerprint sensor, and even include a special secure/tamper-proof chip, but it would never be able to work with things like Apple Pay. It would probably be able to do some things like log you in to your Mac by spoofing itself as a card reader or secure key. But because we can’t communicate with Apple’s Secure Enclave it would never be a seamless experience.
Maybe someday Apple could open up Touch ID like they do with Find My. But for now it’s pretty much a non-starter.
cafebeen 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, agreed. Beautiful keyboard, but when I heard "magic" I hoped to find a touch ID. That sensor so useful that even though I use a mechanical keyboard, I keep an apple magic keyboard off to the side of my desk just for the touch ID sensor.
What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...
xp84 20 minutes ago [-]
Some people I know just velcro a Magic Keyboard to the bottom of their desktop for this reason.
So frustrating that Apple won't sell just a button even at any price. Gotta buy their terrible keyboard for $150 to get that. eyeroll
wuliwong 1 hours ago [-]
In my setup my laptop is close enough that I can reach out and use the fingerprint reader on it. It is stupid but I got used to it pretty quickly.
locknitpicker 1 hours ago [-]
> In my setup my laptop is close enough that I can reach out and use the fingerprint reader on it.
Some mechanical keyboards ship with an embedded USB hub that supports a couple of USB ports that allow users to pick and choose what devices to plug in.
I wonder why this feature isn't widespread.
xp84 18 minutes ago [-]
Not arguing with the general usefulness of the USB hub, but Apple chooses to make their Touch ID sensor 100% proprietary, so the inclusion of a hub is a separate topic to the comment you're quoting. There's no USB Touch ID reader, other than a whole dang Apple-branded keyboard (which is wireless but will work as a USB device).
rxyz 44 minutes ago [-]
20 times a day? You know you can disable touch id for simple password autofill
Very cool looking, but there is an ocean of mechanical keyboards already available with the US keyboard layout. I would explore making ISO international versions. That market is underserved. Because I wanted a mechanical keyboard with a CAN/CSA Z243.200-92 layout with Mac modifiers, I had to design my own layout in SVG for a Max Keyboards custom job. Keep in mind, I did not want to design my own, but I had to!
Je suis gaucher, et j'ai fait le choix idiot quand j'étais jeune de mettre ma souris à gauche. C'est un choix très étrange, mais ça fait en sorte que je n'ai jamais eu à me troubler des touches supplémentaires à droite. Sont juste là, accessible, et pas dans mon chemin. Mon clavier est de pleine taille sans enjeu ergonomique pour moi.
ifjeicjwidj 37 minutes ago [-]
This is absolutely fantastic, but those gigantic numbers are just bizarre and not at all good to look at. They feel completely out of place there, like you enlarged them by mistake. Not good.
jonasmst 1 hours ago [-]
I love it when people obsessively iterate over something seemingly trivial until it's exactly what they want. This looks amazing, congrats on the launch. I love mechanical keys, but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky. I would order this in a heartbeat if it was available with a nordic layout
TacticalCoder 49 minutes ago [-]
> ... but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky
For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk?
And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout.
Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that.
So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram?
I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.
Tsiklon 2 hours ago [-]
I am a big fan of the original Altar. I like that you’ve been trying new things with that design like the novel keycap profile.
The switches look like cherry ultra low profile switches. I’ve not tried these out, how do they feel compared to the linear kailh choc v1’s you used before.
aemerson_ 1 hours ago [-]
Glad you like Altar I!
They feel quite different to the Chocs, unsurprisingly. Although the required actuation force is close to the Choc Reds (40gf on our switch vs 50gf on the Choc Reds), because it's spread over such a small vertical travel it feels much "snappier". There is also very little pre-travel. It's kind of like a much sharper/tactile feeling chiclet switch with more vertical travel, if that makes sense.
wronex 2 hours ago [-]
Really cool! I’d love to try those switches. Can’t imagine using a non-split keyboard though. Great work regardless. Stunning.
rxyz 46 minutes ago [-]
What a beautiful device. Few questions:
Will it be okay for someone who switches between devices and OSes often? Can I have layers that I can swap between like on a VIA board?
What is the click latency?
Is USB just for charging or can I use it without BT?
addaon 57 minutes ago [-]
Order placed.
I respect that you're doing a single variant up front, and I understand the business challenges and risks of going wide on a niche product like this... but as a single datapoint, I'll pay double for an ortholinear with similar features and style.
dimitrieh 2 hours ago [-]
Great concept! I need eu layout with the extra button next to the left shift. Why I would buy is essentially. Thin, premium typing experience, accessibility features. Don't need the fancy dials, stick out buttons, or a speaker. Dim it down, and it would be perfect
pierrefermat1 2 hours ago [-]
For those in the comment section looking for a split alternative to this, there is this Kickstarter(be warned of the usual problems with Kickstarters):
Sold me one, even though it doesn’t have Touch ID. It can be forgiven given the rest.
The mdial is amazing. The Nixie tube numbers are fun. The sleekness. And this website with all demo’s is really well made. Also the “about” site is cool.
You were not underpromising when stating Apple didn’t spend enough energy here. This is a leap. And I fully trust you’ll deliver.
If anything, why not work at Apple after this adventure and get these things (or another next level keyboard) out at massive scale?
swiftcoder 1 hours ago [-]
Congrats on the industrial design, that is one of the nicest looking keyboards I've seen in a hot minute.
waffletower 7 minutes ago [-]
Cramming the fn key into the sacred ctrl-alt-cmd triumvirate is disagreeable. Would require learning and remapping. I prefer fn to be distant as I have chorded for decades with the said trio.
isoprophlex 1 hours ago [-]
Rarely have I wanted to spend money on a peripheral as readily as on this keyboard. It looks like it's perfection.
altairprime 55 minutes ago [-]
Hey, hooray! I still have my switch-modded Altar I but it ended up being too tall for me, so this is a surprisingly great discovery for my morning. Looking forward to trying a new keyboard :D
znnajdla 1 hours ago [-]
An indie dev beating Apple at its own game is some feat. This inspires me. Would purchase in a heartbeat.
xp84 28 seconds ago [-]
Right? When Apple expects $149 for their extremely mediocre membrane keyboard, and its only feature is the one they cheat to keep exclusive, it's embarrassing how much better a tiny team can do.
nmca 22 minutes ago [-]
It would be glorious if there was a split version!
splittydev 2 hours ago [-]
Looks great, but sadly no fingerprint sensor is a deal breaker for me. I know it's not actually possible, so not your fault, but it's not for me. I rely on that thing way too much.
nerdjon 2 hours ago [-]
When I saw the announcement I was kinda hoping that they were taking a magic keyboard, tearing it apart and adding the extra hardware to make having this possible.
Opened the site, thought it was teenage engineering... Which is a compliment to me, because I always love their designs! Unfortunately as a HHKB user I'm not a fan of low profile keyboards otherwise I would've bought this.
aemerson_ 2 hours ago [-]
I appreciate the TE comparison! I am very inspired by them. Maybe in the future we can make a thicker keyboard for you.
harrygeez 48 minutes ago [-]
I love this! Though I don't own a Mac anymore. I expect this to work as a standard keyboard in Linux? Which features are mac-only?
recensorium 2 hours ago [-]
This looks awesome! The thing I'd want to know is how much of the configuration lives on firmware vs. in the macOS app? If the app is a thin config editor and the mappings remain on-device, that's very different than if the dial and haptics stop working when a future macOS release breaks the app. Also, is there any commitment on firmware being flashable/open if the company someday isn't around?
aemerson_ 2 hours ago [-]
Everything lives on the keyboard itself. The app just configures files on the device, basically. The keyboard also works without the app of course. This approach has the added benefit of making your configuration portable. For example if you remap your dial, and move to a different computer, your remapped dial will persist.
There are a couple of small quality-of-life features that do require the app: for example if you want haptic feedback when you receive a notification. This is because the keyboard has no idea what is happening on your OS, and requires some middleware. But all the core functionality requires no app at all.
Both Altar I and Altar II firmware are based on the open-source ZMK (https://zmk.dev). We try to contribute back to ZMK whenever we can because we have benefitted so much from it. Two members of our team are also long-standing ZMK contributors.
computerfriend 56 minutes ago [-]
Will the app also be free/open-source?
LeBit 56 minutes ago [-]
It is time to introduce split space bars in every new keyboard designs.
The single wide space bar is an even worse offender than row staggered or qwerty.
sssilver 2 hours ago [-]
This looks wonderful.
I wish it had the option to be ordered with blank keys.
n-barraclough 2 hours ago [-]
I love this. I type with one hand, & I find mechanical keyboards with lots of travel very difficult because of the speed I type at and the depth that you need to make the key activate. It's a shame about the lack of fingerprint sensor - I wonder if there's any projects out there where you could rescue one from a donor keyboard & just put that in a small profile case nearby?
railgunmerlin 18 minutes ago [-]
given kickstarter is november, when do you expect to ship?
whycombinetor 2 hours ago [-]
Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "fully mechanical scissor switch"? And is this the first such switch on the market? If I search for other such products I can only find "metal scissor switch over rubber dome" style.
pelagicAustral 2 hours ago [-]
Looks amazing. Would've been crazy good to include a few OLED keys a la Optimus Maximus [0], which has forever been a dream, even with all the negative reviews.
Reserved! I would have paid the 249 today btw :) she looks beautiful.
AshamedBadger56 2 hours ago [-]
Absolutely love the design, features, website, attention to detail, and just...taste. It's been quite a while since I mashed that reserve button so quickly haha. Hope it lives up to the design and looks!
K0nserv 2 hours ago [-]
Looks beautiful, congrats on the launch! I've been looking for a replacement for my Apple Magic keyboard. I would love to buy one, but ISO layout is a must for me, also would like blank or swappable keycaps.
arikrahman 1 hours ago [-]
With this was more in line with corne style split keyboards and really made for programmers like enthium.
naikrovek 36 minutes ago [-]
Maybe a bit (a lot) overboard with the marketing snazz on this page.
it's a keyboard
It's not a miracle.
If you're going to have all this 3D imagery, put a glTF model viewer on the page, and let me look at it.
though to be told, I definitely want one. low profile keyboards are indeed my jam. I don't know why the hell keyboards need to have batteries though. No one needs a wireless keyboard. Wires are not that much of a pain in the ass. Coiled, self-retracting keyboard cables are a thing. Keyboards do not need to be wireless. Wires are fine, I promise! Wireless mouse? Sure. Wires make the mouse move when you don't want it to move. Wireless credential entry device? Those should remain wired, I think.
j_aime 2 hours ago [-]
Wow I not expecting to see that! I love it!!! Good work!
deepsun 47 minutes ago [-]
Well, for programming it's not convenient -- no Insert/Pageup/Screenshot buttons.
f311a 39 minutes ago [-]
Why do you need screenshot button for programming? How many times do you press it?
You can just use fn button for that.
People are programming on a 36-key keyboards just fine and they don't miss any keys.
It's easier to press fn + something than reaching out for screenshot button, which is usually far away. That way, you don't have to move your hands.
energy123 29 minutes ago [-]
The cognitive load of having to press two keys takes its toll and breaks flow, even though it doesn't seem like it should make a difference, at least in my experience. I'm back to TKL or larger.
jerlam 33 minutes ago [-]
Does a Mac even recognize the screenshot button?
I take lots of screenshots and videos and add them to PRs, which clearly communicate what has changed.
red_hare 42 minutes ago [-]
15 years of mouse-free professional programming and never in my life have I touched these.
naikrovek 41 minutes ago [-]
30 years of professional programming and I touch "Home", "End", "PgUp", "PgDn", "Ins", and "Del" every single day.
f311a 29 minutes ago [-]
You can do this using fn button, without moving your hand every time you need to press them.
It's very convenient, when your hand don't move at all and can reach every button.
naikrovek 20 minutes ago [-]
you can do it using any button you like. lots of keyboards are entirely remappable. i don't understand how/why one saying they never touch these buttons is some kind of flex, like it's somehow superior to avoid using some keys or something.
bicepjai 2 hours ago [-]
Looks beautiful and great presentation of your efforts. Hope it lives up to its expectations. All the best
edumucelli 2 hours ago [-]
Beautiful, would it work on Linux?
Btw, the website is really heavy for my connection.
gilthelander 2 hours ago [-]
I don't understand the overwhelming praise. This product is just bizarre. Who is this for?
What's with the giant numbers and tiny symbols? I know where the numbers are from muscle memory. I don't have the symbols memorized.
Haptic feedback when you use the command key? Why?
No number pad or page up/page dn, which would be something useful.
This is like The Homer of keyboards. Does it play La Cucaracha out of the speaker if you push the knob four times?
You clearly have the technical capabilities but the product requirements are bonkers.
kccqzy 1 hours ago [-]
Part of the reason for the overwhelming praise is because this is a “Show HN” thread[0]. People liked the amount of effort put in. Keyboards are highly personal anyways, so I wouldn’t be surprised that an average person would disagree with a few design decisions here.
It's made for keyboard enthusiasts. Give it a shot. Maybe you'll be one of them.
handfuloflight 2 hours ago [-]
Beautiful! Looking forward to the Kickstarter. But also, why is it completely flat?
richwater 2 hours ago [-]
These switches remind me of the butterfly switches on previous generations of Macbooks....not a great memory
xiconfjs 2 hours ago [-]
What is the weight?
hack1312 2 hours ago [-]
The autoplaying videos make your website unusable on mobile.
bix6 2 hours ago [-]
Love it! Can you offer full color lighting instead of just red?
jbonatakis 35 minutes ago [-]
I’d like to second this. Being able to change the color using the dial would be…satisfying.
yassa9 2 hours ago [-]
I like the website more than the keyboard itself
gaigalas 41 minutes ago [-]
I was really excited about Altar I, but no shipping to Brazil, so I gave up on it. Nice to see the idea continues (consider worldwide shipping would be my only feedback on the idea, I guess).
I now own a Logitech MX Keys S and I'm quite happy with it.
anentropic 2 hours ago [-]
Any plans for a model with numeric keypad too?
aemerson_ 2 hours ago [-]
Not at the moment.
If we did a numpad I would probably do it as a separate device. Personally I don't like how the numpad sits between the edge of my keyboard and mouse. I'd prefer it to the left of my keyboard or to the right side of my mouse.
tempodox 2 hours ago [-]
OK, I want it, but for Linux.
archagon 51 minutes ago [-]
Great work! Have you, or do you intend to, write about the process of bringing this to fruition? Would love to learn more about how a polished bit of hardware like this is designed.
wilsonnb3 2 hours ago [-]
What does it feel like to type on?
aemerson_ 2 hours ago [-]
It's kind of like a M-series Mac keyboard but with substantially more travel on the key (we have about 0.5mm more travel), and more of a more definitive sense of when the key is actuated. It's a much more tactile experience than the MacBook keyboards, but that is still the closest comparison.
realo 2 hours ago [-]
Nice!
The devil is in the details.
Do you have a french version? ...
sam_lowry_ 2 hours ago [-]
Just turn it upside down /s
Locketgoma 2 hours ago [-]
It. It is real thing? cool.
theodric 58 minutes ago [-]
Sent to my rich friend. He wants 3 in white!
nicksergeant 2 hours ago [-]
My dream keyboard, if only it could split down the middle for ergonomics :(
ChaseRensberger 2 hours ago [-]
yea split + ortholinear would be peak
jerlam 30 minutes ago [-]
Ergo users are never going to be happy.
I'd complain about the lack of thumb keys, and then the flatness, and suddenly we're talking about a completely different keyboard.
hparadiz 2 hours ago [-]
Add a finger print sensor at some point. Lovely design.
rc5150 1 hours ago [-]
there is nothing more satisfying than the thickness of the device being the same thickness of the charge cable terminal.
This looks dope, looking forward to ordering in the future.
aus10d 2 hours ago [-]
dang, this seems really amazing
Scarbutt 2 hours ago [-]
This looks great. Never liked the idea of having to add wrist rests to all these tall bulky mechanical keyboards.
Does it support the globe key without having to use karabiner?
aemerson_ 2 hours ago [-]
It does! We do some firmware trickery to make the globe key behave just like the Magic Keyboard. Can you tell me what exactly you use it for? I just want to make sure we have your use case covered.
Wow, beautiful. Both the site and the keyboard. I put a deposit down.
Edit: in reply to the person above because I keep getting a "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." error because I've made 2 posts in this thread apparently...
Anyway, it would be neat if in the future the M-Dial slot could be used for a fingerprint reader or something else. Swappable items in that slot.
aemerson_ 2 hours ago [-]
Thank you so much! Really appreciate it. Glad you like the website too, I put a lot of effort into it.
If you have any questions I'd be very happy to answer them.
johng 2 hours ago [-]
Honestly the price seems quite low for what you get (at $249) and what looks like might be a small batch production. I hope you can make a profit after everything is said and done at that price!
aemerson_ 1 hours ago [-]
This price is only for people who reserve before we launch on Kickstarter. I agree it is good value but also I should point out the retail price will be $349 for anyone buying after we fulfil all the pre-orders.
Rest assured we are building a sustainable business that will be around for the long haul.
aaroninsf 2 hours ago [-]
Lovely engineering; if you bring it to market(?) I suggest offering if not full customization a range of aesthetics.
Black/red is a hard no for me. Something fitting with the existing aesthetic (let's call it "Scandanavian milled", subtle frosting, white text) or warmer ("natural", off-white, orange LEDs) etc etc.
One other question: waterproof? I assume that's not possible. Would be a decision maker for me personally probably.
nocebolauncher 49 minutes ago [-]
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n0t3ths81 2 hours ago [-]
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ls-a 2 hours ago [-]
Looks nice. However, 2 years and you still squished the arrow keys into the rest of the keyboard. Unacceptable "design" mate. You need to talk with your customers.
Hugsbox 2 hours ago [-]
Unfortunately, no numpad is definitely a dealbreaker. Looks like a really cool product, but the numpad is a _must_ for any keyboard you want to do real work on, at least in my opinion.
phoghed 58 minutes ago [-]
Maybe if excel is your main software used I could see that, can’t remember the last time I typed enough numbers to make it worth it though.
Hugsbox 22 minutes ago [-]
I don't like playing Nethack without it :(
But yeah, I guess that's fair, not everybody's workload is going to involve inputting incident numbers, and order numbers, and asset numbers, etc etc etc all the time... even IP addresses, I just find it so much more comfortable with the numpad, whereas I find I have a tough time touch-typing on the number row.
What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it.
To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.
As near as I can understand it, macOS supports a smart card reader (and apparently will defer to its sign-off for authentication duties when it's present and configured, and Touch ID isn't), so if you emulate a smart card reader you can make your own fingerprint sensor and have it say "I'm a smart card" and sign challenges like a smart card does.
The creator is very up front that this isn't equivalently secure for preserving state secrets, as if you carefully tear this device apart you can just short the pins that the sensor part connects when it's happy with the fingerprint. On the other hand, it is hilarious that anyone who isn't a person of interest for the CIA, Mossad, MI6, or FSB would think they're important enough for someone to go to the trouble of using that method to unlock their secrets. Anyone else would just club you over the head or slip you a mickey, and stick your unconscious finger on your fingerprint sensor.
People are raising a good point RE Touch ID. It is possible to add a fingerprint sensor. But that fingerprint sensor will never be able to do the things that Touch ID is most useful for: i.e. use Apple Pay. It would be incredibly confusing to have a fingerprint sensor that was usable for some things and not for others. Therefore the better experience today is to not include a fingerprint sensor at all, imo.
(The only non-timekeeping items on the 'Always works perfectly' part of the list are Apple Pay and the little button that dings your phone when you've misplaced it.)
Everyone would be better served with a generic USB hub in the keyboard, not shipping a security key with the keyboard.
For a long time I would argue (as an IT support person who would have to support your wireless keyboard problems) that having a wireless keyboard was wasteful and unnecessary if you never used it more than 3 feet from your computer anyway.
CC @gtsteve
Reverse-engineered from the Apple Magic Keyboard and requires a donor board, though
It's apparently a UNIX thing, and old Apple, NeXT, some of DEC, Sun, HP UNIX, Sony NEWS, even IBM XT, many of modern Mac JIS, etc. seem to/did/do have the legends for that key as "Control", "CTRL", or "Ctrl". I think that adds even more to the cool factor.
the website however is a terrible experience. There is so much movement whilst scrolling that it triggers my motion sickness.
The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them.
Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?
https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide
With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.
How long are preorders/is the preorder discount available? I may seriously consider this.
I'm curious what the purpose of haptic feedback on an already mechanical keyboard is?
Cool that you've been able to turn this into a livable business though.
Thank you, good luck, and looking forward!
If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.
The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?
Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?
I visited a mechanical keyboard shop, tried about 20 of them including low profile variants, then visited an Apple shop. Both shops allowed me to sit down and measure my typing speeds on a computer over many trials.
The apple magic keyboard, full-size, gives me about 10-20% faster typing speeds. Over the previous three years I had only used mechanical keyboards.
I also found it very aesthetically pleasing to type on, rivalled only by the Logitech pebble in terms of subjective feel. There's something about feeling the whole aluminium frame and plastic membrane flex when I hit a key hard that I find pleasing in a way that isn't matched by many other keyboards.
I bought one, and it's the only piece of apple hardware I own. My 3 mechanical keyboards are collecting dust.
As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday.
Otherwise it looks beautiful.
We could include _a_ fingerprint sensor, and even include a special secure/tamper-proof chip, but it would never be able to work with things like Apple Pay. It would probably be able to do some things like log you in to your Mac by spoofing itself as a card reader or secure key. But because we can’t communicate with Apple’s Secure Enclave it would never be a seamless experience.
Maybe someday Apple could open up Touch ID like they do with Find My. But for now it’s pretty much a non-starter.
What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...
So frustrating that Apple won't sell just a button even at any price. Gotta buy their terrible keyboard for $150 to get that. eyeroll
Some mechanical keyboards ship with an embedded USB hub that supports a couple of USB ports that allow users to pick and choose what devices to plug in.
I wonder why this feature isn't widespread.
https://qwerty-lafayette.org/
For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk?
And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout.
Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that.
So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram?
I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.
The switches look like cherry ultra low profile switches. I’ve not tried these out, how do they feel compared to the linear kailh choc v1’s you used before.
They feel quite different to the Chocs, unsurprisingly. Although the required actuation force is close to the Choc Reds (40gf on our switch vs 50gf on the Choc Reds), because it's spread over such a small vertical travel it feels much "snappier". There is also very little pre-travel. It's kind of like a much sharper/tactile feeling chiclet switch with more vertical travel, if that makes sense.
What is the click latency?
Is USB just for charging or can I use it without BT?
I respect that you're doing a single variant up front, and I understand the business challenges and risks of going wide on a niche product like this... but as a single datapoint, I'll pay double for an ortholinear with similar features and style.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-s...
or this that is in stock but doesn't exactly follow Apple's layout
https://www.ozokeyboards.com/products/jiffy75-wireless-split...
The mdial is amazing. The Nixie tube numbers are fun. The sleekness. And this website with all demo’s is really well made. Also the “about” site is cool.
You were not underpromising when stating Apple didn’t spend enough energy here. This is a leap. And I fully trust you’ll deliver.
If anything, why not work at Apple after this adventure and get these things (or another next level keyboard) out at massive scale?
But seems like that is not the case.
(no affiliation, saw a thread on it here)
There are a couple of small quality-of-life features that do require the app: for example if you want haptic feedback when you receive a notification. This is because the keyboard has no idea what is happening on your OS, and requires some middleware. But all the core functionality requires no app at all.
To answer your second question, the firmware for Altar II will be open-sourced, as the firmware for our Altar I keyboard is. You can see the Altar I firmware source code here: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-...
Both Altar I and Altar II firmware are based on the open-source ZMK (https://zmk.dev). We try to contribute back to ZMK whenever we can because we have benefitted so much from it. Two members of our team are also long-standing ZMK contributors.
The single wide space bar is an even worse offender than row staggered or qwerty.
I wish it had the option to be ordered with blank keys.
[0] https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/
it's a keyboard
It's not a miracle.
If you're going to have all this 3D imagery, put a glTF model viewer on the page, and let me look at it.
though to be told, I definitely want one. low profile keyboards are indeed my jam. I don't know why the hell keyboards need to have batteries though. No one needs a wireless keyboard. Wires are not that much of a pain in the ass. Coiled, self-retracting keyboard cables are a thing. Keyboards do not need to be wireless. Wires are fine, I promise! Wireless mouse? Sure. Wires make the mouse move when you don't want it to move. Wireless credential entry device? Those should remain wired, I think.
People are programming on a 36-key keyboards just fine and they don't miss any keys. It's easier to press fn + something than reaching out for screenshot button, which is usually far away. That way, you don't have to move your hands.
I take lots of screenshots and videos and add them to PRs, which clearly communicate what has changed.
It's very convenient, when your hand don't move at all and can reach every button.
What's with the giant numbers and tiny symbols? I know where the numbers are from muscle memory. I don't have the symbols memorized.
Haptic feedback when you use the command key? Why?
No number pad or page up/page dn, which would be something useful.
This is like The Homer of keyboards. Does it play La Cucaracha out of the speaker if you push the knob four times?
You clearly have the technical capabilities but the product requirements are bonkers.
[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
Me and my preorder
I now own a Logitech MX Keys S and I'm quite happy with it.
If we did a numpad I would probably do it as a separate device. Personally I don't like how the numpad sits between the edge of my keyboard and mouse. I'd prefer it to the left of my keyboard or to the right side of my mouse.
The devil is in the details.
Do you have a french version? ...
I'd complain about the lack of thumb keys, and then the flatness, and suddenly we're talking about a completely different keyboard.
This looks dope, looking forward to ordering in the future.
Does it support the globe key without having to use karabiner?
Edit: in reply to the person above because I keep getting a "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." error because I've made 2 posts in this thread apparently...
Anyway, it would be neat if in the future the M-Dial slot could be used for a fingerprint reader or something else. Swappable items in that slot.
If you have any questions I'd be very happy to answer them.
Rest assured we are building a sustainable business that will be around for the long haul.
Black/red is a hard no for me. Something fitting with the existing aesthetic (let's call it "Scandanavian milled", subtle frosting, white text) or warmer ("natural", off-white, orange LEDs) etc etc.
One other question: waterproof? I assume that's not possible. Would be a decision maker for me personally probably.
But yeah, I guess that's fair, not everybody's workload is going to involve inputting incident numbers, and order numbers, and asset numbers, etc etc etc all the time... even IP addresses, I just find it so much more comfortable with the numpad, whereas I find I have a tough time touch-typing on the number row.